Kristin: 00:14

Let's talk about stress, baby.

Matt: 00:16

Let's talk

Kristin: 00:17

about you

Matt: 00:18

and me.

Kristin: 00:19

Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that will be.

Matt: 00:23

Let's talk about stress. Yeah. That's everything.

Kristin: 00:30

But what were you gonna say?

Matt: 00:32

Oh, that it's just our our the different things that bring the most amount of stress. And and and the things that bring I think the the most, like, the the most acute, the most damaging, the most infecting. Because that's really what stress is. It's a it becomes its own organism. It's just to call it a a single event and say, well, I'm stressed now.

Matt: 01:10

None of that stress builds on stress, builds on stress, builds on

Kristin: 01:14

And there's reasons of why the stress builds on stress because of how you know how to handle things and how to think about things and yeah.

Matt: 01:21

And it's it's the most impactful when it's stress you just can't talk about.

Kristin: 01:31

Yeah.

Matt: 01:33

And and and and that's where things that are generally in the area of, like, crimes. Like, Felonies and misdemeanors is where a lot of this that stress is, is because those are the things we just don't talk about. Mhmm. Right? Relationships.

Matt: 01:52

When when when real stress is happening with your friend, they don't wanna disclose to you the

Kristin: 02:01

Oh, true.

Matt: 02:02

Worse stress because of the relationship between her and her husband.

Kristin: 02:07

Yeah.

Matt: 02:08

When things are really bad with the kids, they that that relationship stress isn't and if and if and if it ends up being something you do share with your friend or your family members or your mom or your dad or your sibling, whoever your confidant is

Kristin: 02:24

Mhmm.

Matt: 02:25

It ends up being filtered through this story, this this mythology. And so you're gonna get responses and and and help and support about a real stressful event that's having a real impact, but, through this image that just is distorted.

Kristin: 02:51

What do you mean by that?

Matt: 02:52

If somebody's gonna tell you, hey. We're having, marital problems. There has to be a story. Right? Like, what what do you mean by marital problems?

Matt: 03:04

Well, he, she is being this way is this way. The easiest way is simply just to label them, diagnose them.

Kristin: 03:13

Yeah. Okay.

Matt: 03:15

They're bad actors doing bad things or are have bad intentions. Actors doing bad things or have bad intentions, not the context of the story that includes where you struggle.

Kristin: 03:27

Yeah.

Matt: 03:28

And what you're contributing to.

Kristin: 03:31

Yeah. Yeah. The factors of the relationship. Right. Not the one event.

Kristin: 03:36

Right. Because the stresses are coming from more than just that. Definitely. I get that. Yeah.

Kristin: 03:41

That's true.

Matt: 03:44

And and and any time of a family especially has to or does experience violence, that's just shit you don't want to talk about. And there's so much stress with violence, violent words, violent behaviors, violent outcomes.

Kristin: 04:05

There it's just layered though with this through time of this thinking though that the if your family does have that, then it you're you're the problem. Right. It's embarrassing or it's no. There's just shit that needs to be talked about.

Matt: 04:19

Except for sometimes they are the problem. Sure. That's one of the possibilities

Kristin: 04:25

that you're bringing. You're embarrassed to not just talk about it and fix the problem is way worse. Well Like, you are the problem, and you have some problems to fix in your family, not it's just too embarrassing to talk about it, so we just keep it within our family.

Matt: 04:35

You know what I mean? Saying, I don't know that it's better to talk about it fully because I don't think people have the relationships and the people

Kristin: 04:43

To talk about it.

Matt: 04:43

To actually talk fully about it. It wouldn't be received in There's

Kristin: 04:46

the problem.

Matt: 04:47

Fair ways. Yeah. They would be judged by that person, and they know that. So it's the right evaluation. The the point

Kristin: 04:53

It's layered on actually what happens.

Matt: 04:55

Yeah. The point is you've got this I need to tell it. Mhmm. I can't not not tell. That's right.

Matt: 05:02

I can't not tell it. And so you tell a portion of it, and then you're all searching for the solution to a problem that doesn't actually exist. And that summarizes

Kristin: 05:14

That's

Matt: 05:15

modern, cognitive therapy.

Kristin: 05:20

Yes. That.

Matt: 05:22

I would like to solve this solution. Let me tell you a version of this and give me the solution to that. Not only are these people not qualified

Kristin: 05:31

Yeah.

Matt: 05:31

They're they're operating from a false system to begin with, but they they certainly they're only as good as the ability to get a full and fair report and then to evaluate that report as to what actually happened.

Kristin: 05:44

Happened. That is exactly true.

Matt: 05:46

Stress. And that's just the inability to fully articulate, fully process any stressful experience leaves stress behind.

Kristin: 06:01

Mhmm. And part of the stress I think is it's it's how we even remember our stories of during stress Absolutely. Our implicit and explicit memories like it we're kind of even fooled by our own story of what happened, which just causes the stress of it. So and this is why when you can work through a memory with people or an experience with people to help them bring back the full memory of it, writing.

Matt: 06:27

Right.

Kristin: 06:27

You because then we sit and worry about what happened when there were there pieces that we right? And so the stress becomes this pathological stress of, oh my gosh. How how could I have how could that not have happened to me? Well, let's go back and think about the whole thing, and it did, and this is how come it didn't so you can move on.

Matt: 06:44

Pathological stress. That's a good way to describe it. Yeah. It's pathological. It's destructive.

Matt: 06:52

It's that.

Kristin: 06:53

Yeah.

Matt: 06:54

Because there is good stress. There is there is that creative rehabilitative stress that's different than that pathological. And that's why we say, oh, the things that don't kill you make you stronger. No. Sometimes they make you weaker and worse.

Kristin: 07:06

They do. However, you can for many people

Matt: 07:10

Right.

Kristin: 07:10

You can retrain that stress to become a healthy stress. It's still there. It's it's not like we're trying like, we think therapy should be able to wipe all the stress away. No. It's you retrain your brain how to think about it and how to think through it, and that's it.

Kristin: 07:28

And then it becomes, yes, it's part of your story, but it's instead of, right, focusing on the stress. Yeah. We have it all wrong.

Matt: 07:37

All wrong.

Kristin: 07:39

And and there's tools, but it's you you you have to know the tools.

Matt: 07:43

Well, and it

Kristin: 07:44

And like you said, be around people that you sorry. No. But be around people that you can confide in and talk through because there are real shit that needs to be talked through, and it is a lot of it is embarrassing. You have to have, right, a confident that can listen to those embarrassing parts too and not like you said, not many people have that.

Matt: 08:01

Where where you're not the hero in in every story you

Kristin: 08:05

Yeah.

Matt: 08:07

Yeah. It's interesting you're talking about their ability to, like, remember and memory is a is a part of the stress. And and it and it's we get so caught up in whether or not something's a lie or not. If it didn't happen, if it isn't actual, then it's a lie. And and and and that's not what these people are doing.

Matt: 08:24

Nobody's going to their therapist or their friend or their mom and dad or everyone saying, I would like to intentionally mislead you.

Kristin: 08:30

Yeah. Yeah. You're right.

Matt: 08:31

I would like to lie to you. They are presenting a narrative that they have experienced and that they have filtered. But you're right. It's this the way it's perceived and retained and then communicated is is and and and then you add to that. Any stressful event brings amnesia.

Kristin: 08:49

Yep.

Matt: 08:50

Tunnel vision and experiencing it and the inability to to lock it in.

Kristin: 08:54

And the worst thing we do is not talk about it because then we do lock in the wrong parts and we lock in those wrong memory not the wrong memories. That's not the right way to say it. But, yes, it it allows because then you can't. You have to do it all by yourself. And and, of course, the ones you go to are the scary and the worst parts of it.

Kristin: 09:11

And

Matt: 09:12

Think about it. If you're if you're in tunnel vision, you're not picking up all of your your, you know, your awareness is fixed to a survival mode. Right? Fight, flight, freeze, fuck, fun Yeah. Flop.

Matt: 09:27

Right? Your your tunnel vision, you're not getting all the inform you are getting real information, but it's distorted because it's out of context with the other stuff that you didn't have access to in that

Kristin: 09:37

moment. Mhmm.

Matt: 09:38

And it's so not just about picking up the signal Mhmm. Or it starts there. It's not just about retaining the signal. The signal was never picked up because fight, flight, freeze, fight, flop, fun.

Kristin: 09:53

And when the stress happens to young children, they're they're not ever their brain develops through this stress, and they're not able to put words. They didn't have those words or the context to their experience. And that's why it becomes a stressful PTSD because then they grow up, their brain continues to develop. Right? And then they start to understand perspective, but they can't put theirs into perspective.

Kristin: 10:23

Yeah. They they can't because it was like like working with a teenager. Right? That she's able to give me these things that happened, and that that was just was that my life? Well, tell me more about your life then.

Kristin: 10:37

And there was other oh, there's other pieces of your life. And then there was good, and then there was this good, and this good, and this good, and this good, and this bad too. Yeah. Yeah. Those all happened around the same time.

Kristin: 10:44

This was what was happening in your life, your home with your friends through the separation of your parents, all that stuff. Oh, because now as an older brain, they can see oh that is yes that is what happens in life. Right? Your life is bigger than that. Because I get yelled at three times a week but then there's right there's okay then there's these all these other good memories that I forgot about or I'm sorry there was yelling in the home or fighting, right?

Kristin: 11:16

But then there's all these other oh that's right there was some healthy. I'm getting stuck in the scary part. Oh. And then as they grow up they're able to put words to their stories and and and write perspective to their own story. But what you said, the problem is we get stuck and and our mind gets stuck there, but then we grow up and can put perspective to everything else and everyone else's problems, but mine's the worst because I'm

Matt: 11:41

Yeah.

Kristin: 11:42

And now I react this way when I hear a and I and it would have been so easy if somebody just helped children, right, get through an experience with language.

Matt: 11:51

Right. Yeah. And when that that stress was remains, it it it it it does. It

Kristin: 11:58

it Mhmm.

Matt: 12:00

It keeps you in survival mode because it's it's you're always in survival mode from that stress

Kristin: 12:08

Mhmm.

Matt: 12:08

Causing event. Right? Mhmm. It's it's just always there. You know, so when you're memory when you're talking about memory and you're talking about even that the the the experience versus an adult brain, you know, a big brain.

Kristin: 12:22

It is. A big brain as well.

Matt: 12:23

Brain, little brain. I mean, it is. Less components, less activations. I mean, it's big brain, little brain, little brain. But the the the idea of experiencing things two dimensionally versus three dimensionally.

Matt: 12:38

And and and and it's it's that idea of right? Anxiety is, living in a million futures that will never be. Depression is living in

Kristin: 12:47

a

Matt: 12:48

Mhmm. Past that no longer is. And that might not even be fully accurate Yeah. That you might not process fully.

Kristin: 12:55

Yeah.

Matt: 12:55

Right? That's living in a two dimensional, space. Yeah. It's like reading. It's like watch being on a screen, watching a TV show, watching a movie.

Matt: 13:06

And that's what we're doing when we're when we're trying to process things through our memory, whether it be past or future. It's like trying to watch something on a screen that's two dimensional. Mhmm. And that's why the only way to be present is to perceive and experience things three dimensionally. And and and a big way to do that is, okay.

Matt: 13:33

What about now? And then the question of the question of anxiety and depression. Okay. If so, so what? And that helps at least bring a little three dimension to it.

Matt: 13:46

Okay. All these things happen with my parents, with my with my, uncle, brother, boyfriend, girlfriend, ex, child.

Kristin: 13:54

Mhmm.

Matt: 13:55

K. And so so what? What are your relationships today?

Kristin: 14:02

Mhmm.

Matt: 14:03

We'll start there. If if you're saying that it was another being, another person, another loved one, liked one that harms you. Yeah. Did did did did something. What's your relationship today?

Matt: 14:18

Not to them.

Kristin: 14:19

Yeah. All your relation the way you relate to others.

Matt: 14:22

To others.

Kristin: 14:23

Your relationships.

Matt: 14:24

So if so, so what is this experiencing causing you to relate negatively, dysfunctionally, less connecting, you know, disconnective from these people who are important to me, or does it enhance this relationship in some way?

Kristin: 14:40

That's a good question. Yeah.

Matt: 14:41

Does does what I'm worrying about, thinking about, planning, strategizing about? Right? Because it's all that. It's it's it's it's a conspiracy with yourself about your future.

Kristin: 14:53

Worry. Yeah. You're right. What if? What if?

Kristin: 14:55

What if?

Matt: 14:55

What if this? What if? What if that? Okay. If so, so what?

Matt: 14:58

How does that affect me here today with these relationships, including the relationship with all the things I'm worried about? My job Mhmm. My school, my team, my bedroom, my body, my kitchen, my gym.

Kristin: 15:15

That's a good question. Yeah.

Matt: 15:17

What's your relationship? Because there no. We've just talked about a number of relationships and where there are layers and layers of stress that are built in each one, both past, present, future, people, entities, environments.

Kristin: 15:30

Mhmm.

Matt: 15:31

All the stress. Stress over food, stress over movement, stress over sleep, stress over sex, stress over death.

Kristin: 15:43

Yeah.

Matt: 15:44

Stress over drugs.

Kristin: 15:45

Buried in

Matt: 15:46

the that other people use, including the foods they eat and the waters they eat and the and whether they're doing diet soda or or or microbrew or tea or kombucha or

Kristin: 15:57

bottled water. Right. Tap. That's right.

Matt: 16:01

It's it's drugs. Right? We're stressed over every drug down to from sugar to meth

Kristin: 16:10

Mhmm.

Matt: 16:10

And everything in between.

Kristin: 16:12

Mhmm.

Matt: 16:12

Which is, like, sugar to heroin and everything in between.

Kristin: 16:17

Yeah. We worry about all that nonstop, but we don't really worry about, like, then what are you putting in your mind and doing with it to fix that so it's not a

Matt: 16:24

If so, so what? Yeah. If so, so what? I mean, the the manner in which so many people spin on a dime as it relates to their approach to cannabis is is is comical.

Kristin: 16:36

Yeah.

Matt: 16:36

The moment they have no other options and they hear it might help reduce just a little bit of suffering. I mean, the biggest prohibition is start start giving their kids fucking ketamine Yeah. In in hope of of some marginal relief from the the mind and the emotions that they're experiencing. Right?

Kristin: 16:59

And it's stress. That you have to learn how to think by yourself in your own mind about things that you're thinking about because they're there. And then there's these whole new age strategies of, like, well, then try to meditate and push it out. Well, that's all good, and you should because you have to be able to help yourself get into the your, I was gonna say perinatal. Your nervousness, the your calming nervousness, and I don't know why I can't think of the word right now.

Matt: 17:35

Yeah.

Kristin: 17:38

You have to be able to do that, but you also have to be able to not numb your thoughts. Right. You're gonna have to think about them, and that is part of the meditation part. You can't meditate without med without also thinking.

Matt: 17:52

It's Yeah.

Kristin: 17:52

It's a it's teaching your you to focus on on you, on what you are thinking about. One thought, you know, even the whole anyway.

Matt: 18:02

People have way too much that. Imaginative, positivity in their life and way too much actual experiential stress.

Kristin: 18:17

Very

Matt: 18:17

interesting. They imagine what it could be like if it was different but better. But they have actual real tangible accessible knowledge about a traumatic

Kristin: 18:35

event. Yes.

Matt: 18:36

This experience this experience is in the is in the agony, not the ecstasy.

Kristin: 18:40

Yeah. And okay. I wanna oh.

Matt: 18:43

Go ahead. Do you

Kristin: 18:43

wanna go ahead? I I was gonna share earlier now that we're kind of back here about because of the act what you said, the because of the actual traumatic event. Mhmm. When I was reading the Whole Brain Child, Dan Siegel and Tina something, they explained this

Matt: 18:58

One of those secular prophets.

Kristin: 19:01

They they gave an example of this little, like, two year old that was in a car accident with his babysitter. And the he was given to the cop, and the ambulance took away the babysitter. And the everything turned out fine, but the this the parent I it might have been one of them as the parent that had to do this, but or a story of theirs. But the the mom knew to the little boy would be like, woo woo, and he'd be bringing back the amp this ambulance sound and get kind of scared. And so she would talk him through as much language as he had to tell his story, but would fill in.

Kristin: 19:40

So what woo hoo. That's right. You heard the ambulance came. You were in a crash. You were in a car crash with who have you know, Jenny.

Kristin: 19:49

The ambulance came. You're right. What else? You know, Jenny off. And you're right.

Kristin: 19:54

They came and took Jenny to the hospital. The they had to take her to the doctor so the doctor could help her. And so the mom would give him the language to figure out his story, and it would last a couple weeks of just the the scare. And because he would what he was remembering, right, were the two things, the scare. The the the crash, the ambulance, and Jenny's gone.

Kristin: 20:14

I'm scared now with this. Right? He was in a car accident too at two, but didn't have any language for that. And and she you know, it it stopped. He stopped bringing that up, and he was able to tell his story with total health.

Kristin: 20:28

He wasn't scared of the car anymore. He wasn't scared that every time he's with Jenny, she's gonna be taken away from, you know, the getting in a car and crashing, and someone's gonna take mommy away. These are the way kids become traumatized is now anytime I'm in a car, what if something happens and I hear, woo, woo, woo, mommy's gonna be taken away? And they they grow up being scared of something that is totally manageable by words and context. And so what that is exactly what's happening to these adults.

Kristin: 20:57

We are all traumatized as as children, and we get stuck in these loops if we're not allowed to talk through our stories and given language to, or you're not one that really thinks about your you know? The you really have to think through those things. And like I said with my client earlier, like, think through those experiences now with the language you have as a 15 year old. Right? And with somebody who even though it happened when you were eight, we're gonna go back to when you were eight, talk through it all Now, but now as a teenager, you know.

Kristin: 21:29

Oh, oh. Fine. You know, like, you have to be given even as adults, we have to be given words to our stories, not just be and like you said, psychotherapy. Yeah. But we're telling our part.

Matt: 21:41

Right.

Kristin: 21:42

There has to be help, I you know, through the If

Matt: 21:46

if you're going if they're going to a a mental health professional, right, it it's it's it's because there's some really, really distressing, destructive, invasive, thoughts and behaviors that are really affecting your body.

Kristin: 22:06

Forget someone even going.

Matt: 22:07

Affecting relationship. Yeah.

Kristin: 22:08

I want help.

Matt: 22:10

And yet modern cognitive behavioral, especially, first, they're just stealing, eastern philosophy to try to do treatment. So if a metal if a modern mental health person, the best they got is EMDR or meditation or yoga, well, they're they're they're they're demonstrating they their tools don't work. Right? Go get a a qualified guru.

Kristin: 22:42

Oh. Yeah.

Matt: 22:43

I had a had a client. I was like, oh, I have this this very major sexual potential deviance to you. Okay. What did you do? Well, I went to therapy, you know?

Matt: 22:52

Well, let me get those notes. I'd like to read those. Do the Headspace app. You know, basically, here, use this app. Watch a YouTube video.

Matt: 23:04

This is the treatment that they have.

Kristin: 23:05

To meditate.

Matt: 23:06

Try to meditate.

Kristin: 23:08

Try to meditate. Like, that word means one thing.

Matt: 23:10

Right. That means because you know what that means, and this kid knows what it means, and these people know what it means, and you're not Yeah.

Kristin: 23:15

That's helpful, psychologist. Thanks.

Matt: 23:17

You yeah. Anyway, I got derailed.

Kristin: 23:24

I did not help.

Matt: 23:25

Oh, that's funny. Oh, but the the the and then in in mental health, then what they do is they allow the patient to drive. Hey. Things are really bad. They're you're really distressed.

Matt: 23:37

Some some, you know, some some bad things may happen, destructive behaviors. You're dealing with real tragedy. How would you like to solve this? What do you think? And they're, you know, they're not supposed to get in the way, and they they just kinda guide the person as to what they want.

Matt: 23:48

Well, I wanna maintain this relationship. Mhmm. Okay. Let's try to give you strategies to maintain this relationship.

Kristin: 23:54

You know, I'm still living with my abuser, but I'd really still like to. Right. I just want my abuser to love me differently. Right. Well, let's think of a way let's think of strategies that you can get your no.

Kristin: 24:04

You that's not

Matt: 24:05

possible. That's

Kristin: 24:06

not possible.

Matt: 24:07

You do this marital therapy, and what it eventually does is just empower the most, the least empathetic one to use this this this, therapist language and tools against the

Kristin: 24:20

one. Mhmm.

Matt: 24:21

So so it's a it's it it it weaponizes therapy Yeah. For the person who has either the most power or the least empathy. Mhmm. Mhmm. Almost always.

Matt: 24:30

Almost always.

Kristin: 24:32

Yep.

Matt: 24:33

Good good marital therapy requires real honesty. And if if it's difficult to get the the people honest with themselves, about themselves, they're honest about their partner. They're not honest about themselves, and so the therapist is handicapped Yeah. That's and blind about a lot of factors. Yep.

Matt: 24:50

But you were you were this this tragedy, how how, stress is so directly related to tragedy and our response to tragedy and our our physiological response and our cognitive response and our neurological response and our chemical response and and and and how that affects our environmental response and then and it starts looking like personality. But but it's not. It's it's a it's a trauma loop of things that are that are that are happening. And and you were talking earlier about the mind and kind of the the some of your technical terms, but it seems like every tragedy is really filtered and responded to with one of two fractions of the mind. Skepticism and mysticism.

Matt: 25:50

And and and the tragedy is something that happens for real to the body, to the mind, from something in the environment.

Kristin: 25:58

Mhmm. And

Matt: 26:00

that tragedy fractures the mind. And the way to process it, like, is it didn't happen. I'd miss I I I misinterpreted. Right? You're skeptical.

Matt: 26:12

Mhmm. Or you try to be hyper rational. Mhmm. This means this. This means this.

Matt: 26:17

This means that. And you're building a story Mhmm. Mhmm. Through the rational side of your brain. And usually, it's one or the other because that tragedy was so impactful, it did violence to other portions of the mind Mhmm.

Matt: 26:32

That make it not able Yeah. To process the experience. And then you have these kids, and I say kids because little brains, big brains.

Kristin: 26:41

I know.

Matt: 26:42

We're all kids.

Kristin: 26:43

We all came from a little brain.

Matt: 26:45

And then the little brain that was that was damaged by an adult.

Kristin: 26:48

Our sweet little little brains. I know.

Matt: 26:50

It it the the the often, they'll they'll the rational reason size shuts down. Yep. And the imagination runs wild. Mhmm. And then the secrecy that is that shrouds the imagination builds more imagination.

Matt: 27:07

Mhmm. And they go to school and their their their their teachers want them to activate this very Mhmm. Other side of their brain, and they can't because they are constantly in this state.

Kristin: 27:17

And they might be right when they're shutting it off over here, there is these holes of just Because if you do open it up, it unleashes all this. It's not and oh, it's so sad.

Matt: 27:30

And and and and we rely that's why those the two great religions, skepticism and mysticism.

Kristin: 27:36

Because that's the other side. You're saying that

Matt: 27:37

You can take every every tragic arts has a has a has either a more skeptical vibe or a mystical vibe.

Kristin: 27:46

Very true.

Matt: 27:46

And and it doesn't matter which which the the tragic arch, the whether you're a healer, a teacher, or a protector. They're gonna your

Kristin: 27:54

heart attack.

Matt: 27:54

They're gonna lead. Right? It's it's kinda like a sativa or or indica. They're all they all try to be hybrids, but they're all always dominant one and dominant the other. I mean, it's it's it's, all these systems of the mind.

Matt: 28:10

Mhmm. Systems. You know? Because systems we say say the mind and the heart. Well, no.

Matt: 28:15

There's only the mind. The heart is a pump. When I talk about the gut, that's different, but the heart is a pump. Emotions aren't in the heart. They're they're in the imagination centers of the mind because everything is a think.

Matt: 28:28

Every Yeah. Emotion is a thought. Yep. It just happens to be experienced and processed physiologically through the bottle.

Kristin: 28:37

Built on experiences, which is the emotion like, the senses we took in to remember that experience. Right. Yeah.

Matt: 28:43

And and and and it and it's why

Kristin: 28:45

Emotions are thanks.

Matt: 28:47

Really, all of these are almost forms of or the healing arts, the tragic arts, the the protective arts, the the educational arts, the developmental arts.

Kristin: 29:03

Yeah.

Matt: 29:04

Because all of this is about development, human development. Transitioning from aquatic creature to fully formed adult human. Mhmm. And the stages between those are so interesting Mhmm. And impactful.

Kristin: 29:31

And when you said emotions are things, then there really are tools. Our mind is powerful and there are tools to think through those things and and train your brain to handle those things through when you're scared, when you're triggered, whatever, all of it. You we have a tool, big brains, to just to really work through the mysticism and the skepticism of an experience.

Matt: 30:10

And relying only on one and especially when we become an enemy to the other.

Kristin: 30:17

Mhmm.

Matt: 30:17

And that's very interesting. Like ideologies and systems become an an enemy to mysticism or an enemy to skepticism. Because that's when dogmas come in. And that's really what you can look at. You can look at these skeptical secular dogmas Mhmm.

Matt: 30:34

And these religious mystical dogmas. Yes. And some of these secular mystical dogmas and these religious skeptical dogmas Yeah. They they happen all these these ways. I mean, look look at the the you just you just have to look at the schisms within Christianity.

Matt: 30:52

It's the all these billions of people saying, well, we're all Christian. No. You all simply have the same character in your story.

Kristin: 31:01

Yeah.

Matt: 31:02

But you you neither share the same rituals, the same theology, the the same systems. Like like, they're not the same. You just believe in the same character. Yeah. It's it's

Kristin: 31:19

And change the story however you want

Matt: 31:20

to mean your character. The character actually meant this. Yeah. Philosophically

Kristin: 31:25

This is what that meant.

Matt: 31:26

Yeah. It's

Kristin: 31:28

And whose belief gets to be right.

Matt: 31:30

And and and you have this this this this idea of skepticism versus mysticism is found in religions, and it's where they're divided.

Kristin: 31:38

Mhmm.

Matt: 31:39

And it is it's where, again, the secular skeptical world is divided. Mhmm.

Kristin: 31:44

And we

Matt: 31:44

have all these fractures because this is how people respond to tragedy either generally, generally, with hyper skepticism or hyper mysticism.

Kristin: 31:55

That's true. That's true.

Matt: 31:57

When there's no

Kristin: 31:58

There's gotta be a

Matt: 31:59

very little balance.

Kristin: 32:01

Yeah.

Matt: 32:02

There's very little balance. And that that impacts the development of the little brain so that the little brains can never fully develop into big brains. And those big brains that are fully developed are never fully activated.

Kristin: 32:17

That's true. That's true. Because when they're taught to be it's like they grow up with those, you know, the hourglass things. They can only see through that lens of just that type of thinking and it it's not a full picture at all. That is crazy.

Matt: 32:33

And and and you know You could just

Kristin: 32:34

take it off and see the whole crystal ball.

Matt: 32:36

I'm not just You see people who are magical thinkers. Right? And they're and they're they're often found in in in, among the religious, but but not always. And this is the idea of spiritual bypassing. You're just always, right?

Matt: 32:57

And this imagination, this this magic thinking. Everything's gonna turn out wonderfully. Why? Because I say it so it's it's it's magical thinking. And we we we think of magical thinkers as uneducated and as fundamentalist, because often there is magic in fundamentalist thinking.

Matt: 33:20

Right? Santa Claus is real. Mhmm. That is the spirit of the holidays. Mhmm.

Matt: 33:25

It becomes so literal. And then you grow up and you realize, but there is a Santa Claus. There is. We provided evidence of Santa Claus. Why why do children believe in Santa Claus?

Matt: 33:37

Oh, because the people that they love and care about the most that have kept them safe and protected have literally intentionally taken steps to ensure that there is physical evidence of this being for the first five or six years in their life, and then they're called dumb for believing their parent. And I say, take a lesson on that.

Kristin: 34:06

Yeah.

Matt: 34:08

But there's evidence. And now we can talk about a literal story versus metaphor. And the main concept was that there is a being who's very powerful that loves you very much. And even when you're naughty, you're good. And, therefore, we celebrate your life.

Matt: 34:30

That's the message that's trying to be communicated. Mhmm. Now other people have different mythologies, and it gets twisted into this theocratic being who will punish you and hurt you for thoughts in your head. So we don't all share the same stories. We don't share the same Christian stories.

Matt: 34:55

We don't have the same mythology, philosophy, or ritual, which is to say we don't have the same morals just because you quote unquote believe that some dude named Jesus existed and was a great man

Kristin: 35:10

Mhmm.

Matt: 35:11

And in fact was literally God. We can believe all of those words in that order are true and be so far away from what that actually means. If so, so

Kristin: 35:23

what? Mhmm.

Matt: 35:27

Because I'm less interested in your Jesus than I am your God. I dig the human expression of an all powerful deity. I'm more interested in the characteristics, attributes, and morals of that being that is God, the non human concept, organism, conscious reverberation. Because when a person tells me about that being, it tells me everything about, a, what a type of a parent they are and what type of a person they are. But especially tells you about their parenting and whether or not they're risky or safe.

Matt: 36:35

Because all theology is a response to tragedy.

Kristin: 36:45

Yeah. You said the people that they'll tell you about your their Jesus though. But some people is that what you said?

Matt: 36:56

I'm I'm cool with the human expression of this deity.

Kristin: 37:01

Yeah.

Matt: 37:02

Like, I get that. Everybody we all believe in that that that God. But where the schism of Christianity be that's where the divide is. It's it's a philosophical theological divide of whether or not the Holy Spirit is expressed through the father or through the father and the son.

Kristin: 37:23

Yeah. Okay.

Matt: 37:24

And that starts mattering

Kristin: 37:26

Yeah.

Matt: 37:26

From a Christian perspective because it matters cosmically.

Kristin: 37:30

Yeah.

Matt: 37:31

It matters morally. It it affects

Kristin: 37:35

Yeah.

Matt: 37:36

Often one's ritual and mythology.

Kristin: 37:40

That's very true. And I got stuck on because I'm like, a lot of people claim to to love and know the same Jesus, but it does stray from there. And that's what I was yeah.

Matt: 37:49

A great example, you got the you got the Orthodox. You got the, you know, you got the Eastern, the Western. Right? You got that great schism.

Kristin: 37:56

Yeah.

Matt: 37:56

But then you have this other group that can't really be there's these other especially, you know, this modern Americana religions.

Kristin: 38:07

Yes.

Matt: 38:08

And it's like the the Seventh day Adventist.

Kristin: 38:10

Okay.

Matt: 38:12

There's there's, you know, some would say Scientologist, but I think that's a whole another Mhmm. Because they're not real. It's that's almost a different Christian. It's almost different.

Kristin: 38:21

It's a

Matt: 38:21

different religion. But you got Seventh day Adventist. You know, Jehovah's Witness arguably is in there, and then there's the there's another one. There's the other one out West. There's the the polygamous.

Kristin: 38:37

Salt Lake.

Matt: 38:38

Salt Lake. Yeah. Salt Lake City, the the the musical that the South Park guys did. Right?

Kristin: 38:43

Yes.

Matt: 38:44

There's there's those ones.

Kristin: 38:45

Yeah.

Matt: 38:45

And they're just a completely different Christian than these two great, you know, these schisms

Kristin: 38:50

Yeah.

Matt: 38:50

Because of their mythology.

Kristin: 38:53

Same

Matt: 38:54

Their their philosophy. They have they stole the same philosophy.

Kristin: 38:57

Same Jesus story, but that is completely different than their philosophy.

Matt: 39:01

Man, Jesus, dude. It's your God that is not the same.

Kristin: 39:04

I that is where it yes.

Matt: 39:06

And and that's that's really why why so many Christians just simply say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. These these the Salt Lake City people Mhmm. The the polygamists, the the Brigham Young Brigham for the Brighamites are, not really Christian because of their theology and their concept of deity.

Matt: 39:27

Yeah. In this question, that was a great question of the right? And polygamy, that was another.

Kristin: 39:33

Yeah. Well, they don't believe in polygamy currently, but they're still in Salt Lake City, so we'll say yeah.

Matt: 39:39

Theologically, they do.

Kristin: 39:40

Kidding. I know. They

Matt: 39:41

Again, I asked what their heaven is like and what their god is, and I understand their god is a polygamist.

Kristin: 39:48

Yeah. And so is the history.

Matt: 39:49

And so is the people They're very proud of. Died Yeah. Are currently in heaven Yes. Polygamist. So I think it's fair theologically, philosophically, and mythologically, and ritualistically to say that that Salt Lake group, are polygamists.

Kristin: 40:06

Yes. Oh, and we're gonna call them polygamists also. But I So let's comment. I'm gonna make it clear that

Matt: 40:11

If we talk about that group, this is very different than Christians. We can talk about Christians, And then within Christians, there are groups. Right? We should we should distinguish between, like, Catholics, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox. Right?

Matt: 40:22

Because there's a theological difference as it relates to both authority

Kristin: 40:26

Mhmm.

Matt: 40:26

Concept of God, authority, and duty. Okay. Because not every Christian sect Yeah. Right? The joy of sect

Kristin: 40:39

That's a good one. Shares

Matt: 40:41

the same concept of deity Yes. Authority or duty.

Kristin: 40:48

It is very important to understand too. And we've done a lot of thinking on that matter because it's different.

Matt: 40:53

It it is different. It's it's again, it's different philosophically. It's different systemically. It's different, and it affects you know what it affects? It affects tragedy.

Matt: 41:03

It affects stress. The way people approach their their religions, their their theology Mhmm. Simply has an impact on one's stress. It it it it either assists with or assists with that that that tragic stress

Kristin: 41:26

Mhmm.

Matt: 41:27

Or it contributes to it. And sometimes it does both, and isn't that fun? It it it it it it does both. And so the the areas that these the theology that that religion, whether it be secular or sacred Mhmm. Whether it be a skeptical or a mystical approach, right, is how does that system, that philosophy, that ritual, that mythology impact your relationships, violence,

Kristin: 42:05

drugs,

Matt: 42:07

sex, sleep, diet, movement. And mood. How does that thought system because that's what all theologies, religious systems are. They are thought. Mhmm.

Matt: 42:39

Methodologies, they're thought systems. How do those impact those things?

Kristin: 42:44

Yeah. That is that is so good.

Matt: 42:48

Movement, diet, sleep, sex, drugs, violence, relationships. Because these thought systems sure do have a lot to say about each of those things.

Kristin: 43:05

They sure do.

Matt: 43:06

The one thing that both the secular and the sacred, the religious and the and the and the secular have in common, they all say, we know better and you can trust us. Yeah. So it becomes an evaluation as do they know better on these areas, And should they be trusted?

Kristin: 43:27

Yeah. Yeah. Should they be trusted? I like I was gonna say, and can they be trusted, but should they?

Matt: 43:33

Before we hear what you have to say, you should establish your credibility for why anyone should listen to you. Mhmm. Let alone take what you have to say seriously. Because sometimes you listen to someone and don't take them seriously because you find them entertaining.

Kristin: 43:53

Yeah. True.

Matt: 43:55

But they're asking to be trusted and be taken seriously, and they're asking to have impact and control over the lives, which is to say the body and minds of your children.

Kristin: 44:07

Mhmm.

Matt: 44:07

And they're most prevalent within these religious organizations and these political organizations.

Kristin: 44:13

Yes.

Matt: 44:13

Yes. They control classrooms, crime scenes, and courtrooms.

Kristin: 44:20

Yes. Every

Matt: 44:22

time. They control them. They control them through their influence, through their through their power, through their discretion, through their money, through their lobbying.

Kristin: 44:30

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Matt: 44:31

It ultimately has impact over the lives of real people, real families. Or something like that.

Kristin: 44:45

Something like that. Yeah.